Yet another dither and mix Question

I'm sorry gang, but I haven't found a concise answer to my questions on previous threads, so here it goes... I have recently moved my PT rig into a studio with a Sony MCI console and I am contemplating mixing my songs on the console versus inside PT. Would this help me accomplish the same things the the Dangerous 2bus claims to do? Also, I have to admit my dithering ignorance. Does PT do it for you when you mix down? What's the best way to get from 24bit to 16bit for the CD master? I could go through the Sony MCI back to PT but then I'm still in 24bit. What would I do next? Or I could go to the 2" tape or to a DAT. Then I could bring that back into a 16bit session, but all of this seems like alot of conversions for nothing. I know I'm looking like a newbie with this post, but I have had such great success only to be dissapointed everytime a do a mixdown. Thanks for all of your help! A humble Busterman

If you are running PT like a tape machine and mixing via external analog console....no dither is needed. If you are mixing in PT in a 24 or 16 bit session.... insert dither on the Master fader...which ( the insert) is post fader, prior to the bounce (meaning...If you do an automated fade on the master fader...this level feeds the dither plug) This is only if the need for the bounced file is 16 bit. If bouncing to 24b....no dither. BTW...use POWRdither in place of the digi dither plug. Have you tried using the dithered mixer? Many prefer that also. This dithers in the PT mixer at any summing point ( bus or hardware). (to be used in conjunction with dithering on bounce when going to 16b) Rob

mix back into PT at 24-bit. use POW-r dither and bounce to disk at 16-bit. as i understand it, POW-r does all dithering outside of the range of hearing (or I should say without introducing any noise into the range of hearing). but you probably want to leave it at 24-bit until its mastered. here's a good article on POW-r: POW-r plug-in is free with PT TDM. lance

Thanks for the help guys I'll look into it. Now what do you think- mix inside PT or use the Sony MCI console?

Thanks again. It's funny. Sometimes we get so involved in bits and bars that we forget the most logical answers to our questions. Peace. Busterman

I've done both, and I agree with lancejorton. It depends on the session. We have HD3 and a Sony MXP3036. For some sessions I want to use outboard gear and have more air. These sessions are harder to recall however, if there are changes, so I try to keep all my faders at unity. Other, simpler sessions or ones that clients may want recalled (like commercial/post stuff) I stay inside the box. I definitely prefer the sound of the headroom with the analog mixing, but some sessions just can't afford the time. As far as mixing, I prefer to go back at 24 and save the jump to 16 for the mastering session. If I need to go to CD directly after the session, I mix into PT with an L2 on the aux in before the record track. The L2 is set to 16 bit requantizing and dither, but I record 24 bit files. Roxio Jam can burn cds from 24 bit split stereo SD2 files - you just have to turn off dithering in Jam's prefs. My understanding with BTD and export as file (the other ways to get to 16 bit) are that they apply their own automatic dither, so if you're putting powr dither on your master fader then BTD that means you're dithering TWICE! Inaam

The projects I am working on now are rock bands and songwriters who have come to me for the organic live sound I get via my live recording techniques and large room. So after hearing your advice I think I should mix alot of this stuff on the Sony.

Inaam, I've heard about the dither thing with File Export but not BTD. My understanding with File Export was that it dithered automatically if you were going from a 24-bit file to 16-bit file (it won't let you simply truncate the extra bits). I've BTD from 24-bit to 16-bit before without instantiating the dither and put it in another source to listen to it and you can tell that the dither was absent and it sounds like bits were truncated. I did that when I was using LE though and I've never tried it in TDM. Besides, you should be able to turn off the audiosuite dither in the preferences menu. I'd like to know for sure how it works though. Lance

Yes Lance, you're right about being able to not use dither when BTD. But I like tape style mixdown, I like to open plug-ins while bouncing, even tweak or automate if necessary, and punch in on mixes too. Some of my bounces are up to 80 minutes long and if I had to start from the top each time and rename the file each time I needed to change something it would get frustrating very fast. So, yeah you can single dither with Pow-R dither if using BTD to go to 16. I did a search on L2 and Pow-R dither and found that some people prefer to use the L2 with IDR set to 24 and THEN dither to 16 with Pow-R. I'm going to try this out. PS with the tools in Spectrafoo like the bitscope and the spectrum analyzer you can actually see the effects of dither and word length reduction. It makes it all so much more tangible.... Inaam